[Melissa]

Keep this on topic, or I will close this thread. There will be no conversation about other forums, this is about the information being provided by Angie. If Angie would like to come here and explain this, she is welcome to, but even if she doesn't, I think we are all smart enough to figure out what she is saying.

Well for those of us around long enough, and those who spent time reading the BFF, we all know how much Jim Flowers and company enjoy "testing" the general bigfoot community.. When the MRP site was first announced and the audio was put up, my first thought was "are they doing this to see if people can tell the difference?" I even made this remark to Wammy, among others.

Well, someone who was (emphasis on was) friends and on the MRP research property has stepped forward to make some interesting comments, and at the same time further my belief this was all a big set up from day one.

I think this is a valid conversation. So apparently the MRP thought those "invited" were too stupid to know when they were being hoaxed? I noticed Stacy chimed in to give her 2 cents (which is not worth anymore than that). Angies posts were edited, to remove information she had provided in the past, and a warning sent to her... Let this be a lesson to all.. Tell the truth and bust the pals and you will be put quickly on the "we don't like you anymore" list.. LOL. Some people are so transparent. Angie should be applauded for sticking to her principles and telling the truth the way she seen it and experienced it. Instead it appears she is being silenced and those in charge are allowing others to call her a liar.. I'm not shocked.

Wasn't someone close to the MRP busted and given a vacation for a while for hoaxing the BFF crowd at one point?

They wouldn't be involved in something like that again... Would they???

Angie writes:

Quote

I quickly read the posts since mine. I may be jumping into this response too soon because of Stacy's post but oh well.

No need to attack me Stacy. I did think of you as a friend but your response has pretty much sent that to null and void. I did NOT sign a NDA and am only keeping "your" little secret out of respect for you, Jim and Paul. Paul gave me the excuse that you all cant disclose that info because it would be too easy for someone to google a couple phrases and your location would be disclosed. Well, I googled a few phrases and did not come up with anything. So....why not just out with the "secret" and be done with it?

Yes I spent 4 days at the location and yes I did see and hear enough to tell me that a hoax was attempted on me. Does that mean that everything that your group has experienced is a hoax? No but it does tend to make it a more plausible answer. Why would someone try to hoax us on the trip that I attended and then stop after I left? Not likely. I can only assume that the hoaxing continued after I departed.

Without giving away your secret, I will explain a little more of what this "secret" tells me: There is someone there with the mindset to attempt a hoax, someone there that has the equipment needed to pull off a hoax and someone there that has the "know how" to pull off a hoax of this sort.

Yes, I took a walk with this person, just me and him, and asked many questions. I noticed the enjoyment he took when three deer suddenly erupted from a field next to us and I was 10 feet running the other way before he could turn around. I was there just before the vocals started and he was telling me that I should move to another location to have a better vantage point of any possible vocals, like others of our group were doing. I simply said no, that angle is already covered by others. Turns out I did have a bad vantage point when the vocals soon started. I, after listening to some of this persons "equipment" had asked how he created that sound. He stated that he had it LOOPED. Obviously he's knowledgeable in the respect of creating and manipulating sounds. I was in his house when he checked his computer and was extremely pleased that he had received something in his email, noticed that I was paying close attention and then realized his mistake and tried to explain it away as pertaining to your other "secret". I noticed how, after any activity that the group experienced, he was sure to go and visit every single member to get their take on it. What they thought and how it made them feel. Ha! In my perspective, you guys helped him perpetrate the hoax. Unknowingly letting him know what to do and what not to do.

I was also there before we even visited this area and he visited ours. Giving out CDs of the Sierra Sounds CD and filling our heads with research that he had found that supposedly matched what was happening in his research area. Only problem is that the info he researched was such garbage that anyone who has their own personal experiences knows it!

Shall I go on? There is more but at this point I dont really give a damn to elaborate.

I only chimed in cuz I felt that a huge injustice was being done to the MI group and as a result, to serious researchers of the subject. I didnt realize to what extent this was happening because I have been busy with LIFE and was not aware of what was going on.

As far as a couple other responses that were in this thread. The reason that I say "I believe" is because, back in the day, if you said a BF does this or that then you were criticized for this. I know what I know for myself but wont even try to convince others. At this stage of my life I could give a damn if you know or not.

DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH! I can only offer possibles.

I never said that all BF sound the same but, hopefullly this will explain what Im trying to convey a little better: If my uncle Fred is screaming at the top of his lungs in the woods, he does not even come close to duplicating what a BF sounds like screaming at the top of his lungs.

Tree knocks. Do the research. Tell me how many you come up with used for intimidation purposes. Thrashing maybe, not knocking.

Insects. Yeah, if you got a BF upset and causing all kinds of chaos. You can bet your ass that you wont hear a chorus of insects in the background. Here's a clue: That most likely has to do with the infrasound or bass accompanied with such behavior. The damn bugs are probably stunned and incapable of movement. < Again, that is one of those "I believe" statements. Come up with a better one if you can.

I realize that this post is a jumble of a mess but Im pissed off right now and ranting. I may come back and post in a more rational state of mind but if I had any brains, I'd leave it where it is and be damned all of ya!

Angie

Looks like the house of cards is coming down around the neck of the MRP. Note to Angie: Your only a clear thinker with good ideas and good honest integrity as long as you are friends with this group.

I have had little doubt this was a hoax from the get go. If anyone has knowledge of hoaxing, they need to come forward with every bit of information they know, before this goes any further. If this research is about BF - then it needs to be about BF and not protecting people who are knowingly either covering up hoaxing or involved in hoaxing.

Angie goes on to say this:

Quote

I also am tired of and dont have the patience to re-explain my posts to those that dont want to read it well enough. Example: the posts referring to being able to make and manipulate your own sounds or find other sounds and manipulate them. Mechanical or natural. I never said one over the other. They are all included. Dont start picking and choosing what you want to focus on instead of what I said. If you dont feel like creating your own sounds, there are other resources out there that are easily accesible to you. These links are only a small example of sounds at your disposal:

http://www.productio...x.com/index.php

http://www.grsites.c...ry/25/?offset=0

You can also take a recording on a CD, put it in your cmputer and manipulate it with different software. You can even record your own sounds and manipulate them as you wish. The possibilites are endless for someone that has the knowledge to do it.

I know of at least one person within the MRP who has some advanced skills in this regard. So, question I have is this -- Are these sites being used by MRP.. Is this why Angie posted these links? Interesting.

I like how Stacy comes along later to say they ONLY want to discuss the audio recordings. That's interesting, considering they devoted a brand spaking new website to not just the audio, but to the events surrounding the recordings. Remember the nod to "Generational Reports? Generational reports of what? Rogue Squirrels and Chipmunks? Here's a hint.. Smart people do not discuss opinions or even offer an opinion without having FULL knowledge of what has transpired. Get your doctor to give you a diagnosis over the phone of your abdominal pain.. He wont do it? Why? Because he needs to examine and talk to you. That is what smart people do. They avail themselves of ALL the facts and formulate an opinion. Apparently the MRP wants to do this the other way around. Get an expert to offer an opinion for your court case. First you have to turn over all the information and samples to that expert, who will then do his own examination (without you watching over his shoulder) and offer a written opinion. We as the Bigfoot Community are not even allowed the ability to download the audio for independent evaluation.. Why is that I wonder? (See Angie's post above re: Audio Manipulation sites*. The MRP crowd and friends seem to want it their way.. In the real world, it does not work like this.

It is also interesting considering Angie's comments are in direct reference to the audio recordings, yet neither Stacy or Paul want to address these very serious issues Angie is bringing up, and are going directly to the only thing Stacy says the MRP wants to discuss.

Of course now the conversation has stopped where it was started, as the thread was closed down (apparently the "powers that be" do not want the answers to these legit questions either, when did self proclaimed bigfoot researchers stop asking the tough questions?) with Angie's final question to Stacy and Paul still unanswered (re: a guided tour.. Tour of what?). Very valid question I might add.. Why was the conversation stopped and locked? Well, maybe because the genie got out of the bottle, and the friends of the MRP couldn't get that genie to fit back in - regardless of how many threats were made, and how much stomping and yelling they did. I am personally proud of those who stood up and questioned the MRP. I am glad to see not everyone is blinded by friendship, and do have the best interests of this research in mind.

Folks, IT IS OK to ask questions. You should be encouraged, not scolded for asking the questions that make you comfortable with believing what someone puts out as "evidence". There are serious --- serious issues with this, and anyone who turns a blind eye to these problems is asking to be hoaxed.

Even if Angie or Drew never disclose what information they have, I think any rational person would agree.. The fork has been stuck in this one, and it appears to be not just dead, but it stinks to high heaven. The MRP have created more questions, than they are prepared to answer. Maybe the answers will be the final nail in the coffin? Angie seems to be corroborating Drew's comments about something else going on at this property.

[JohnCartwright]

I hope the MRG are not hoaxing. I hope the MRG are being hoaxed. That would be soooooo much more fun. But alas,they would have to be incredibly stupid for that to be the case. So, if the owner had a Bigfoot suit to scare people, do you think that is what Bardsley saw when he had his road crossing sighting?

[Melissa]

Quote

So, if the owner had a Bigfoot suit to scare people, do you think that is what Bardsley saw when he had his road crossing sighting?

You know JC, now that the "costume" comments are floating around, they have NO choice but to first admit what exactly is going on, and what they know. To be honest, at this point I would call them liars if they said they knew nothing about hoaxing. They all but said there was NO WAY they could be hoaxed and had completely ruled it out - they even went so far as to go to other forums to tell them (and the world) how stupid they were for not believing they (the MRP) could not be hoaxed.

They sealed their own fate by laughing off any discussion of hoaxing, and they not only look complicit, but could very well be in it up to their eyeballs. There is good reason why Rockinkt has backed away quickly. He understands what this looks like, and how they are coming across to the community in general. I am betting they didn't consult him before they put up that pretty website with the poorly thought through "research" results. If they had I can imagine Rockinkt would have said "Are you people freaking nuts?"

As for Bardsley, now that we know a costume of something that looked like an ape was on that property at one time it must be considered as the likely source of what Mike says he seen.

When you withhold information from the public (in ANY kind of investigation) it makes you look like you are involved and dirty. This field of research is no different and our standards should not be lowered so a select few can have their fun with the rest of the community.

[Lyndon]

So let me get this straight. In a nutshell the MRP and it's supporters have held court over at BFF for months and much was discussed and allowed........if it was sympathetic to the 'cause' that is. Now that some things which would throw a spanner in the works have come to light and two independant witnesses to the location are expressing serious doubts about the legitimacy of the recordings and the likelyhood that some kind of hoax has been perpretated.....................the advice from the MRP, it's followers and the admins and mods on BFF is for them to keep quiet and keep it to private correspondence and not to reveal details to those who aren't involved and now the thread is closed just when it's actually getting interesting???????? Alleged information which could derail the entire project can't be talked about???

Is this the jist of it?

This post has been edited by Lyndon: 14 October 2009 - 01:52 AM

[Melissa]

Pretty much. I also think Angie was alluding to the fact that an attempt may have been made to hoax her directly. Which throws in an interesting twist.

How could the property owner hoax an outsider, if he did not have the support and cooperation of others who are in the field?

"Stand here for a better view"..... Yeah. Ok. lmao.

Angie has every right to be angry, I know I would be. Interesting how at one time there would be shouting and screaming from the rafters for banning people who were only under suspicion of hoaxing, yet there is not one person saying anything even close to that in the case of the MRP.

I have an idea why this "research" was allowed on that specific forum, and it appears to have backfired. I'm not saying all the admin on that board are bias, but CLEARLY some are, and to deny it is a clear and utter lie to the membership list. Let someone else (not friendly with the staff) post something similar, then quickly step back and watch what happens. No one else would make it 24 hours.

In fact I dealt with one BS member here, the same way I have seen them handled on that other board.. He wasn't here for long. That's the way it should be in my opinion.

[Lyndon]

Melissa, on 14 October 2009 - 01:35 AM, said:

Well for those of us around long enough, and those who spent time reading the BFF, we all know how much Jim Flowers and company enjoy "testing" the general bigfoot community.. When the MRP site was first announced and the audio was put up, my first thought was "are they doing this to see if people can tell the difference?" I even made this remark to Wammy, among others.

Well, someone who was (emphasis on was) friends and on the MRP research property has stepped forward to make some interesting comments, and at the same time further my belief this was all a big set up from day one.

You really think that might be the case? If so, that's a lot of effort to go through just to test a few people on an internet forum. After all, the MRP sounds haven't really made much of an impact outside a few select internet forums and from what I have read it's just been the same relatively small group of folks discussing them. If this was one big set up designed to test how a number of folks on some internet forums react and to see how gullible (or not) they are then it would say a great deal about the motivation of the people involved. Are they really interested in sasquatch or are they more interested in the thought patterns of the people who are interested in sasquatch??? If it's the latter then it would go a long way to explaining some of the things I have come across on these forums down the years.

[Lyndon]

Melissa, on 14 October 2009 - 08:03 AM, said:

Interesting how at one time there would be shouting and screaming from the rafters for banning people who were only under suspicion of hoaxing, yet there is not one person saying anything even close to that in the case of the MRP.

I know. It's staggering. Even the self labled 'hoaxbuster' is strangely quiet.:hysterical:

[Melissa]

I will say this Lyndon...

Before I broke ties with these people (just before I found out about the "research area) I was having a chat with Jim and someone else,, who I cant remember, via Yahoo IM.

Jim told me he was working on a "new test" for the forums. You know how much he enjoys putting together these things to test people. We discussed a video type of test. Only giving the viewer a few seconds to view the video, then they would need to type out what they seen, as if they were a witness to an event for the first time. It would be a test to see what witnesses might be able to recall.. Of course this would not be a scientific test, but I even thought this would be interesting.

A few weeks later, I found out about this "super secret" area, from Stacy. A few months later, Teresa sent me the audio. Oddly enough, Jim dropped out of site, and according to Stacy, he had lost all interest. Remember this is AFTER they were given access to this location and had recorded some strange audio (according to Stacy). According to Stacy and the MRP website, they had already been recording strange vocals and having "close encounters" with what Stacy described as a hostile animal for about a year.. The Jim totally loses interest.. Why? If Jim had been witness to such awe inspiring moments at this research area, why the lack of desire? I heard this from more than one person, after Stacy told me of Jims change of heart. Word was no one was sure if Jim would even get involved again. Then Jim returns to say he now understands why people do not release all their evidence..

The names of the experts they sent this audio to has not been disclosed. Could these "experts" be people within the community or others who have analyzed audio before? I don't know. Could they be trying to teach a lesson to more than just the bigfoot community? Sure. You have heard them gripe and complain about other "analyzed audio"...

Why would they wait so long? I don't know.. Why would they wait so long if they thought they had unknown vocals, and were looking for discussion from within the community as they are saying they need now. None of it makes any sense.

[Washingtonian]

Holy smoke and mirrors! A test?

I could see someone testing their observation abilities by watching a video where something unexpected happens or appears, but I do think that if someone does something like this they should let everyone who participates know ahead of time that it is a test and nothing more than that.

This reminds me of the Pywacket hoax incident where he was just "testing" the reaction of the new people. Anybody who has been around Bigfoot research for any length of time should know that there are many people, in fact I'd say the majority, who take their research seriously even if they don't have a Ph.D. behind their name and to be subjected to some kind of "test" without being told that it is a test, well that is about as close to hoaxing as you can get.

If this was done just to see what the reaction would be then I for one will be skipping completely over any future reports from those involved and also those who have given support to this so called test.

As it is there has been enough stuff that has gone on that has caused me to doubt even more than I already doubted that this was genuine. Way too much hype and way too little answering of good, serious questions. Too many people running to prop up the personalities involved rather than seriously question what was being presented.

Were they hoaxed? Possibly, but if at least two people can visit the site and see good reason to doubt what is going on then how can these "researchers" not have seen these things at some point during the 6 years they have been working this site?

Close up the threads and speak of this no more? ? ? ? ? This to me is equal to "don't pay any attention to the little man behind the curtain". Perhaps that is the problem, someone grew up watching The Wizard of Oz every year and they have this mentality stuck in their heads.

So the head Cheese supposedly lost interest yet when this first came out he was front and center in the picture? Sounds odd to me.

[Melissa]

I have no posting this audio was in fact a "test", but at the same time, I would not put it past them. During my discussion of the test using video, I told Jim it should be stated up front the idea behind the exercise, and what the purpose is behind it. I thought that would be an awesome exercise in "how much do we really see, and how much do we get wrong".

You know... I never even considered the pywacket angle to this. Pywacket was caught doing this very same thing, and forgiven by the MRP crowd, to include the couple of admin who are defending the MRP group....

Interesting..

[Drew]

Melissa said:

Wasn't someone close to the MRP busted and given a vacation for a while for hoaxing the BFF crowd at one point?

Who was this?

This post has been edited by Drew: 14 October 2009 - 07:47 AM

[Ganglian]

JohnCartwright, on 14 October 2009 - 12:06 AM, said:

I hope the MRG are not hoaxing. I hope the MRG are being hoaxed. That would be soooooo much more fun. But alas,they would have to be incredibly stupid for that to be the case. So, if the owner had a Bigfoot suit to scare people, do you think that is what Bardsley saw when he had his road crossing sighting?

Same here, despite my feelings for some of them personally, anytime anyone hoaxes they hurt the greater effort, I echoe JC's opinion.

[Ganglian]

Melissa, on 14 October 2009 - 02:18 AM, said:

I will say this Lyndon...

Before I broke ties with these people (just before I found out about the "research area) I was having a chat with Jim and someone else,, who I cant remember, via Yahoo IM.

Jim told me he was working on a "new test" for the forums. You know how much he enjoys putting together these things to test people. We discussed a video type of test. Only giving the viewer a few seconds to view the video, then they would need to type out what they seen, as if they were a witness to an event for the first time. It would be a test to see what witnesses might be able to recall.. Of course this would not be a scientific test, but I even thought this would be interesting.

A few weeks later, I found out about this "super secret" area, from Stacy. A few months later, Teresa sent me the audio. Oddly enough, Jim dropped out of site, and according to Stacy, he had lost all interest. Remember this is AFTER they were given access to this location and had recorded some strange audio (according to Stacy). According to Stacy and the MRP website, they had already been recording strange vocals and having "close encounters" with what Stacy described as a hostile animal for about a year.. The Jim totally loses interest.. Why? If Jim had been witness to such awe inspiring moments at this research area, why the lack of desire? I heard this from more than one person, after Stacy told me of Jims change of heart. Word was no one was sure if Jim would even get involved again. Then Jim returns to say he now understands why people do not release all their evidence..

The names of the experts they sent this audio to has not been disclosed. Could these "experts" be people within the community or others who have analyzed audio before? I don't know. Could they be trying to teach a lesson to more than just the bigfoot community? Sure. You have heard them gripe and complain about other "analyzed audio"...

Why would they wait so long? I don't know.. Why would they wait so long if they thought they had unknown vocals, and were looking for discussion from within the community as they are saying they need now. None of it makes any sense.

These tests or experiments as I had termed them are what I had mentioned on that other discussion, there is a very fine line between "test" and hoax. This would cross that line if that what this is.

[Ganglian]

Drew, on 14 October 2009 - 07:46 AM, said:

Who was this?

Yes there was, and before I post the incorrect name, I need to find the thread over there, it is well two years old so it might take some time, but I'd rather do it right once. And if that is what this is, it's frankly time to sink the Jimite battleship and show them for what they are anywhere and everywhere. If not, thats why I want to .do it correctly

[Ganglian]

Melissa, on 13 October 2009 - 07:35 PM, said:

Keep this on topic, or I will close this thread. There will be no conversation about other forums, this is about the information being provided by Angie. If Angie would like to come here and explain this, she is welcome to, but even if she doesn't, I think we are all smart enough to figure out what she is saying.

Well for those of us around long enough, and those who spent time reading the BFF, we all know how much Jim Flowers and company enjoy "testing" the general bigfoot community.. When the MRP site was first announced and the audio was put up, my first thought was "are they doing this to see if people can tell the difference?" I even made this remark to Wammy, among others.

Well, someone who was (emphasis on was) friends and on the MRP research property has stepped forward to make some interesting comments, and at the same time further my belief this was all a big set up from day one.

I think this is a valid conversation. So apparently the MRP thought those "invited" were too stupid to know when they were being hoaxed? I noticed Stacy chimed in to give her 2 cents (which is not worth anymore than that). Angies posts were edited, to remove information she had provided in the past, and a warning sent to her... Let this be a lesson to all.. Tell the truth and bust the pals and you will be put quickly on the "we don't like you anymore" list.. LOL. Some people are so transparent. Angie should be applauded for sticking to her principles and telling the truth the way she seen it and experienced it. Instead it appears she is being silenced and those in charge are allowing others to call her a liar.. I'm not shocked.

Wasn't someone close to the MRP busted and given a vacation for a while for hoaxing the BFF crowd at one point?

They wouldn't be involved in something like that again... Would they???

Angie writes:



Looks like the house of cards is coming down around the neck of the MRP. Note to Angie: Your only a clear thinker with good ideas and good honest integrity as long as you are friends with this group.

I have had little doubt this was a hoax from the get go. If anyone has knowledge of hoaxing, they need to come forward with every bit of information they know, before this goes any further. If this research is about BF - then it needs to be about BF and not protecting people who are knowingly either covering up hoaxing or involved in hoaxing.

Angie goes on to say this:



I know of at least one person within the MRP who has some advanced skills in this regard. So, question I have is this -- Are these sites being used by MRP.. Is this why Angie posted these links? Interesting.

I like how Stacy comes along later to say they ONLY want to discuss the audio recordings. That's interesting, considering they devoted a brand spaking new website to not just the audio, but to the events surrounding the recordings. Remember the nod to "Generational Reports? Generational reports of what? Rogue Squirrels and Chipmunks? Here's a hint.. Smart people do not discuss opinions or even offer an opinion without having FULL knowledge of what has transpired. Get your doctor to give you a diagnosis over the phone of your abdominal pain.. He wont do it? Why? Because he needs to examine and talk to you. That is what smart people do. They avail themselves of ALL the facts and formulate an opinion. Apparently the MRP wants to do this the other way around. Get an expert to offer an opinion for your court case. First you have to turn over all the information and samples to that expert, who will then do his own examination (without you watching over his shoulder) and offer a written opinion. We as the Bigfoot Community are not even allowed the ability to download the audio for independent evaluation.. Why is that I wonder? (See Angie's post above re: Audio Manipulation sites*. The MRP crowd and friends seem to want it their way.. In the real world, it does not work like this.

It is also interesting considering Angie's comments are in direct reference to the audio recordings, yet neither Stacy or Paul want to address these very serious issues Angie is bringing up, and are going directly to the only thing Stacy says the MRP wants to discuss.

Of course now the conversation has stopped where it was started, as the thread was closed down (apparently the "powers that be" do not want the answers to these legit questions either, when did self proclaimed bigfoot researchers stop asking the tough questions?) with Angie's final question to Stacy and Paul still unanswered (re: a guided tour.. Tour of what?). Very valid question I might add.. Why was the conversation stopped and locked? Well, maybe because the genie got out of the bottle, and the friends of the MRP couldn't get that genie to fit back in - regardless of how many threats were made, and how much stomping and yelling they did. I am personally proud of those who stood up and questioned the MRP. I am glad to see not everyone is blinded by friendship, and do have the best interests of this research in mind.

Folks, IT IS OK to ask questions. You should be encouraged, not scolded for asking the questions that make you comfortable with believing what someone puts out as "evidence". There are serious --- serious issues with this, and anyone who turns a blind eye to these problems is asking to be hoaxed.

Even if Angie or Drew never disclose what information they have, I think any rational person would agree.. The fork has been stuck in this one, and it appears to be not just dead, but it stinks to high heaven. The MRP have created more questions, than they are prepared to answer. Maybe the answers will be the final nail in the coffin? Angie seems to be corroborating Drew's comments about something else going on at this property.

You know you dont want other discussions mentioned, but I do feel the need to point out that if the subject is dead due to Drew/Angie not commenting further, then fine, but it IS NOT FINE that it should be dead because certain individuals elsewhere shut down two discussions on it, thats exactly why I thought it should be revisited in a venue where it wont get shut down because lingering questions arent convenient.

[Ganglian]

Melissa, on 14 October 2009 - 12:59 AM, said:

You know JC, now that the "costume" comments are floating around, they have NO choice but to first admit what exactly is going on, and what they know. To be honest, at this point I would call them liars if they said they knew nothing about hoaxing. They all but said there was NO WAY they could be hoaxed and had completely ruled it out - they even went so far as to go to other forums to tell them (and the world) how stupid they were for not believing they (the MRP) could not be hoaxed.

They sealed their own fate by laughing off any discussion of hoaxing, and they not only look complicit, but could very well be in it up to their eyeballs. There is good reason why Rockinkt has backed away quickly. He understands what this looks like, and how they are coming across to the community in general. I am betting they didn't consult him before they put up that pretty website with the poorly thought through "research" results. If they had I can imagine Rockinkt would have said "Are you people freaking nuts?"

As for Bardsley, now that we know a costume of something that looked like an ape was on that property at one time it must be considered as the likely source of what Mike says he seen.

Agreed on all of this, they did originally claim they could not have been hoaxed so now it looks bad, their silence doesnt help them. Unanswered questions allow imaginations to fester

Quote

When you withhold information from the public (in ANY kind of investigation) it makes you look like you are involved and dirty. This field of research is no different and our standards should not be lowered so a select few can have their fun with the rest of the community.

One point of clarity here: It is okay to withhold info when the matter is still under investigation and not public, but in this case THEY made it public. And, in my opinion, they have no rigt to cry victim, though if they were to come clean and admit it was just a test a/or experiment, I will mkae it my busines to scream hoax from the rafters to the far points of god's green earth, not just about but those who defended them as well. Because there were clearly back room discussions between MRP and various individuals that maintain other avenues of discussion to this subject.

[Ganglian]

Melissa, on 14 October 2009 - 02:03 AM, said:

Pretty much. I also think Angie was alluding to the fact that an attempt may have been made to hoax her directly. Which throws in an interesting twist.

How could the property owner hoax an outsider, if he did not have the support and cooperation of others who are in the field?

"Stand here for a better view"..... Yeah. Ok. lmao.

Angie has every right to be angry, I know I would be. Interesting how at one time there would be shouting and screaming from the rafters for banning people who were only under suspicion of hoaxing, yet there is not one person saying anything even close to that in the case of the MRP.

I have an idea why this "research" was allowed on that specific forum, and it appears to have backfired. I'm not saying all the admin on that board are bias, but CLEARLY some are, and to deny it is a clear and utter lie to the membership list. Let someone else (not friendly with the staff) post something similar, then quickly step back and watch what happens. No one else would make it 24 hours.

In fact I dealt with one BS member here, the same way I have seen them handled on that other board.. He wasn't here for long. That's the way it should be in my opinion.

Most of them are biased and the facts occured here to implicate some of them in trying to control the conversation, ie the flow of the information pertaining t the project.

Counselor essentially demanded all MRP conversation be directed to the BFF, essentially interfering withn internal affairs, Mel, Billy and myself saw Vella attempt to manipulate and in some cases intimidate (as if he could) us into more or less the same thing. With the direction this has taken, those facts are pertinant to what those individuals knew and know. By shutting down and controling the conversation on the subject, if it proven a hoax, do they the mods playing censor then have potential complicty, even indirectly?

The turd is in front the fan, all that remains is to hit the switch.....

[Ganglian]

Melissa, on 14 October 2009 - 03:45 AM, said:

You know... I never even considered the pywacket angle to this. Pywacket was caught doing this very same thing, and forgiven by the MRP crowd, to include the couple of admin who are defending the MRP group....

Interesting..

I will state for the record when I was still with the AIBR and things got heated between Pywacket and myself over this exact things, there was question where the bias was, and in fact I was given a warning and as ar as I know, pywacket was definately given prefered treatment in that. If this proves a hoax, again, a whole lot of this is going to be revisited, LOUDLY, after............it is proven to be a hoax.

[Melissa]

Well, just so we are all clear on this..

I did not shut down the MRP conversation because I was threatened. I shut down the conversation because it was going nowhere. The MRP had picked up their toys and went home. There was no new information. Angie has changed all that.

When the threats were leveled, I shoved back. I do not appreciate being bullied by anyone.

Ganglian said:

Quote

One point of clarity here: It is okay to withhold info when the matter is still under investigation and not public, but in this case THEY made it public.

That is absolutely the truth. If you do not want people to look into what your doing and saying, then by all means, keep your fingers still and your mouth shut. I'm frankly shocked they kept it quiet this long.

[Washingtonian]

I also think that it is very disingenuous to be selective as to what information is "off limits".

They don't even want to answer questions about statements that have been made on their web site or subsequent statements, they want everybody to just take their word for it. This should not be misconstrued as being equal to someone who has had a sighting yet they don't have any proof. Only a shallow thinker would claim such a thing.

I completely understand those who have made a decision not to go public with their Bigfoot experience. Those who have at least decided to make a report to any one of a number of organizations are usually more than willing to answer any questions and give as much detail as they can. Most organizations allow for anonymity for any publicizing of their experience.

Anonymity for the MRP and their :cheer: :cheer: is already out the window. Extraordinary claims have been made, even though it appears that some things have been scrubbed or a cover story has been formulated from previous discussions (altered maps and such).